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This is an edited transcript of a presentation and demonstration of Oriental Medicine and its value to patients with systemic vasculitis, particularly Churg-Strauss and Wegener's granulomatosis, presented April 25, 1998 to a meeting of the Wegeners Support Group of Northern California.
The number one medicine in Chinese tradition is qi gong
Guest speakers were:
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MS. THORNBROUGH: The number one medicine in Chinese tradition is qi gong. The Chinese are not going to present it that way, but what separates oriental medicine from western medicine is that life style is considered the major cause of most disease: By that, the Chinese mean work, rest, eating and your emotional and physical habits. Qi gong has been around for thousands of years, probably longer than Chinese medicine (which has been around for thousands of years). It is designed to increase the health and well being of the body and the human bring on all levels: physical, mental and emotional. What you do in qi gong is take energy from around the universe and bring it into the body. We both practice Qui gong every single day. I have practiced for twenty years. I highly recommend it.
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One of the things that I've found to be true is that the practice must mesh with your life style: so any place of practice an hour or more away may not meet your needs. You need to ask the people who live in your community who teaches Qi kung, Tai Chi - and what they thought about the class. Go to at least two classes and get some contrast. Make a commitment to check it out and you will find some place you like - that feels good. If you can't find Qi gong - find Tai Chi. It is still Qi gong and will move the energy. You want to find a practice that moves energy. Calisthenics, running, exercise do not have the same impact on the body, but Sufi exercises would do so.
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DR. ARNOLD:
I have never had a patient with Wegeners Granulomatosis, and if Barry has it, I do, but no one is sure of what he has. So I am not a big clinical expert. I have seen a lot of autoimmune disease in my time. And now I have read a big pile of papers about Wegener's Granulomatosis, but I am trained in traditional Chinese medicine, so I can say something about it. It is potentially a very serious disease, it seems like the course is variable with some people doing okay and some not doing so well. Anything that can influence that course can be valuable and from my point of view and training Traditional Chinese Medicine can influence that course. Then, of course, there are the medications. Prednisone, the methotrexates can be life saving but become their own disease after a certain point. Traditional Chinese medicine is good at treating the side effects of these drugs.
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When people get a diagnosis it is almost LIKE BEING FROZEN, they go through a period where they don't know what it is, whether it is a month, year or decade, and then boom, this is your diagnosis. So your ANCAs come back and this is what you have. This is your condition. But this disease is not really like that; it is a process. It is hard not to get frozen in the diagnosis. But reading the articles from the foundation and from other sources it confirms what I have always seen. There is no fixed picture, there may be a typical picture, that some people have absolutely typical symptoms, some have mild cases, some severe, other people have some symptoms, or some get asthma, some don't …very variable. When people get a diagnosis it is very important that they know that it is not a fixed entity - that they are not frozen into an inevitable sequence of events. Diagnosis is JUST a bridge, an intermediate step to treatment, so what does it really mean if you have WEG It says we feel we have to give you these medicines other wise you will be in much worse shape. Now, we (in Chinese Medicine) have herbs; we use plants, instead of pharmaceuticals. So if someone has Wind, they'll get this herb. It is shorthand for what you do. The difference in Chinese Diagnosis is they use a subjective Natural Imagery which is not objective, not based on laboratory tests, which were nonexistent when this system evolved. It is not based on X-rays, cat scans; it is based on what a patient says about how they feel, and a physical examination. Then they make a subjective, naturalistic, almost poetic diagnosis. Take the example of Wind: a patient is coughing, nose is running, he says I feel sick, I ache here, and in the diagnostic imagery of Chinese Medicine they will say Wind Invaded. Something from the outside invaded. Now, as an MD I can say it's a viral syndrome, we can get electromicroscopy- but it is still something came from the outside. The Chinese practitioner couldn't see it, but he could describe its effects. And they call that an exterior wind invasion, - from outside- something invaded. So what? It is an image, nothing more.
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But what they found was that certain herbs can stop the process. The common cold can actually be repelled or the event made much milder. The image that they use is the wind has attacked from the outside and has started to get inside. But It is on the surface. And we know how it starts in western medicine, as a lot of viruses incubate in the nose. Later they penetrate down and become bronchitis, further down you get a viral pneumonia, too far, a bacterial pneumonia. But it all started outside from somebody coughing (or you touched something) and it came in. So the image is poetic, but the application is effective. (Shows herbs used for Wind Invasion) Some of these are plants, some harvested in the wild and some cultivated and all used in a decoction. These herbs really work for a cold. In western medicine there is really nothing to be done for the common cold. The patient complains and the doctor gives antibiotics to get the patient out of the room.
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What I want to do is make a few more comments on the diagnostic system and then spend time describing what WEG might be in Chinese medicine. There is no WEG, no asthma, and no arthritis in Chinese Medicine. There are no names for these symptoms, so it is very liberating. How well can Chinese medicine treat WEG? I don't know. It is not that common a condition. There is nothing in the Chinese literature about it - so I cannot say. QUESTION: What are the effects of environment? MS. THORNBROUGH ANSWERS: The conditions that we have as results of our industrialization have created insidious and pernicious things that are affecting us, even if we are not sick. One of the things I have to say about Chinese medicine is that it is infinitely adaptable. Because you do not rely upon a diagnosis, you rely upon the person that is in front of you that is presenting you with this symptom and this symptom, and then there is what we see, the complexion, the pulse the tongue, and the spirit - absolutely everything - there isn't anything that doesn't fit into the patterns of diagnosis. That is why the system of medicine can work in China and in the United States because there are some things that are different - but the theory still holds. There are qualities we all have. We feel hot, we feel cold, dry, we feel bad., small, non-energetic, tired,. And because we can all talk about our experience in these ways we can make a diagnosis. DR. ARNOLD: I have never been to China I trained here in Oakland, California IA ., But in Oakland the teachers were all from China. They were saying you don't have any really severe diseases here, just in China. I don't know what they saw. Because an acupuncturist in America does not see as severe diseases as an MD sees in USA. But an Acupuncturist in China may, I don't know, I've not been there. In ancient times in China the population was sparse and the old practitioners looked upon the people and thought the main complaint was Wind Cold. This would get in and cause disease, arthritis, a common cold or pneumonia. Later, China evolved into an agricultural and industrial culture, creating large urban centers and more crowding so the concept of Heat evolved, and the formularies changed.
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Let's return to diagnostics. You heard Ms. Thornbrough mention the words yin and yang. Yang is heat, light energy. Yin is water darkness coolness. By this definition any disease can be broken down by yin and yang. If someone has mania, they're in the manic phase of it they are very yang, running around, hot, flushed. In a coma someone will be yin, they are not doing anything. Hypothermia is yin; Fever is yang. Just like in computer language - it is zero and one. That is all there is. The whole thing is built on that. Then they broke the diagnostic system down into Yang being the outside. If you have a disease that comes to you from the outside that is yang. If you have a disease arising from inside, from an imbalance in your own body that is yin. Then Yang and heat - the sun is yang , the sun is hot - you have hot disease, where you feel hot all the time, sweating, that's yang, that's heat disease. In cold disease you will feel cold all the time, sluggish, inactive - that's yin. An excess is something that should not be there, like phlegm. Deficiency is something that should be there that is not, energy.
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-did it manifest all at once or did it manifest over a couple of years? RESPONSE: It started in my ears, but I have heard different stories from different people. It took two years to diagnose (me). Looking back, I had bronchitis, and I did not take care of it for months. then thought it gone. Then I got ear infection in both ears and I lost 85% of my hearing. Then I was hospitalized. The doctors did not know what it was until Developed conjunctivitis and the opthamologist nailed the diagnosis. RESPONSE1: I had a sinusitis in spring, then in November it started out like the flu, but rapid, going down hill night sweats, it took 6-8 weeks to diagnoses with lab tests, But gradually there were changes in the rates and sed rate was up, white blood count was up., finally they did a urine and that showed signs of kidney involvement. I do not know why the urine test was not done earlier. The whole process took nine months. RESPONSE2: Kidney involvement can be really different from one patient another. I had a lot of respiratory diseases in the past. There were years that went by when my kids were little that I would have bronchitis couple of times year or pneumonitis - and then in l985 I had a mastectomy and I didn't seem to be as prone to get respiratory illnesses, but then the sinus or allergy things. But then in November when I got really sick, all the nasal stuff went away, I had had headaches 0 very sever headaches and they went away too. It was just this low-grade temperature, night sweats and more fatigue. I was just sitting in a chair. It was pretty bad before I got done with it They had done a kidney biopsy and it just showed nephritis. RESPONSE: It looks like (WEG AND CHURG) one of those KGB spies. It is always there - somewhere BUT YOU don't know where. Mine was in my ears, the baby came and it was in my joints. So it can be anytime, anywhere with your body. RESPONSE: Mine started with severe nose bleed in August. I thought it was a seasonal allergy, I blew my nose a lot, and my nose bled a lot., I had nasal crustiness. Then after two months I didn't feel good, I was diagnosed with sinus infection , then it accelerated, my nose started to break down, my face changed and teeth and gums, particularly where I had a root canal, the I developed a pattern of fever around noon, and temps up to a hundreds, and by eleven PM back to normal, This would continue for about two weeks then I would flare up,. And be in bed. I couldn't function, I was sent to ENT doctor who had me come in every three days for more tests and he sent me to a Rheumatologist who diagnosed me. By the time I was diagnosed it was two months. I had no lung involvement, only sinus involvement and I was in really bad shape.
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DR. ARNOLD: One of the theories about diseases like this that start and hang around and move around, and linger, is that some kind of pathogen got in, the wind got in and you never quite got it out. We do not need to say that it is an organism; the wind can be seen as any external influence that disturbed your immune system enough to throw it out of whack. So Retained Pathogen (wind is considered a pathogen) and one reason I am thinking of this is that a lot of Wegeners Starts in the nose. The majority? Perhaps? RESPONSE: My dad's started at the end of June, a bad cough that didn't go away…It was starting to sound like pneumonia to me(Carol is a health professional). He developed night sweats and was eventually hospitalized. Sweats, persistent cough, worried about TB. He was loaded up with antibiotics, did a fluoroscopy - with a piece of tissue large enough - still failed at diagnosis,. They were going to send him home with IV therapy. One hour before discharge the pathologist called his physician and said I know what he's got. He was able to find it on the specimen. They looked at it again. And started him on steroids and cytoxan. Previous to that, about four months earlier, he had a gangrenous gall bladder that had ruptured, and had been walking around with it for several days. I do not know if that had anything to do with Wegeners, or viral or bacterial infection, then when immune system attacks this the immune system does not shut down. DR. ARNOLD: So most of you are describing some sort of respiratory infections thing at the front end of this That suggests the idea of the pathogen coming in, Of the wind coming in. If there's one thing I've learned from this talk is that unexplained respiratory symptoms that persist need to be evaluated. But what I and most doctors do if we have symptoms that persist is to send the patient to another level of professional expertise. A lot of doctors are not informed about WEG or Churg-Strauss just by using that technique. ENT and Rheumatologists must know about it. DR. ARNOLD: From talking to you I get an image of something happening abruptly, triggering or bringing about amore sever state and that creates a series of ongoing problems. QUESTION: Is it Yang? DR. ARNOLD: Yang exterior invasion, yes. So then the question is why are some coming up with Weg and others are not. You look at the condition of the person - maybe some people can drive out wind, others cannot. A person that gets Weg or Churg has a weakness. Now, you said you had a mastectomy in l985. When did you get your first sinusitis? The first one that didn't go away. Did people had health problems before Weg or Churg? If so, the organism is weak, and cannot deal with invasion. the already weak organism is too weak immunologically. RESPONSE: Working for first time in an industrial environment, overtime, the engine was on just behind the shop. I was really sensitive, sensitive to smells.
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DR. ARNOLD: How about others, overworked? stressed? RESPONSE: I think I was overworked for 40 years. I retired l996, and got it less that a year. following about of cancer in l985. DR. ARNOLD: I have seen busloads of people with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. I have heard this story over and over again, "my life was crazy, so stressful, or the ambitious type, well, my life was so healthy, I ran so many miles a day, and I had three kids, two jobs and getting my Ph.D. - *laughter) and I was fine and I don't know why I got sick! Then there are life circumstance people like a lot of you - this happened and we had to deal with it and on and on - then there are people who were constitutionally not that strong and got sick over and over again and finally we have sooner or later (chronic fatigue) they get sick and they don't get up. If this is a normal level of function and we whip ourselves into a higher level of function we break and fall apart. There is a higher incident of heart attack after retirement. MS. THORNBROUGH: One of the interesting things about this is how much our mental state affects are well being, and how much our mental state can help us to ignore what is going on because we feel so compelled by our life circumstances that we actually don't know what is going on in our bodies. We actually are out of touch. There is a lot of discussion about he split between the mind and the body, We are driven by our mental state and that has a certain influence on our body and that helps to pump the adrenaline. It keeps you going all the time and your body is constantly pumping this adrenaline which helps you overcoming barriers - and you feel good about it. But you don t know what is going on in the body and then it splits and it shows. So that is what is interesting to me about the incidence of disease occurring at a time when one can relax and finally take it easy.
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QUESTION: Are we incapable of dealing with everything life throws at us?
MS. THORNBROUGH: We are mortal with bodies and we are now probably incapable of dealing with what we have created and a lot of what we have created is out of balance. Look how hard we have to work just to make things work. How much need do we have? How much do we need. And this is our reality. It is as real for me as it is for anyone. But what we have created for ourselves and for our society is not sustainable. DR. ARNOLD: We are seeing a lot more DISEASES arising from toxins and poisons of our culture. Now you don't have to worry about being eaten by a tiger, but we are now exposed to tons of chemicals as in auto traffic. And I have patients who don't make it - twenty minutes of traffic and they have to pull over. sick and dizzy. for a couple of says. with MCS. The pace of life is not what it used to be, the rhythm has quickened and it is go-go-go and we are whipped by media and advertising into a frenzy of hyperactivity. MS. THORNBROUGH: it takes an act of courage or conscience to look at the whole culture you live in and say I do not want to go that way. that take something! DR. ARNOLD: Chinese medicine predicts if we don't moderate our life style, we will become ill. RESPONSE: We do not have good teachers, good parents to teach these ways of being in life. You have to look in a mirror and see who you are and what motivates you. Who are you? QUESTION: What are you doing differently? My foods, diet, incorporate a lot of real food that I did not want before, root vegetables, doing exercises in the morning. Cut back salt to fight the Prednisone bloating. Reduced red meat. I had so much joint pain. Now, my ANCA and sedimentation is down - and I got rid of my husband - he could not understand what I had and was no support! DR. ARNOLD: You feel that life style changes affected the course your illness for the better I do not want you to get discouraged or depressed at all. the challenge of this world now is how can we moderate our life style and live a little more calmly. People almost always see their illness as an obstacle along the way to where they thought they were going. But it is part of our work of being alive. RESPONSE: This has been one of the best years of my life this past year...and I actually wouldn't want to have missed it. It has been a challenge it made me stop in my tracks. I have made some changes and I do not know where I am going. life is slower - I am not crazed, taking it easy, taking more time for myself. Reading more, more introspective. END OF TRANSCRIPT The remainder of the meeting was a demonstration of qi gong and acupuncture techniques. Transcribed by Barry Boland
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